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The Hilaire Belloc Society's avatar

I don't have time to respond to all of the claims here that are just wrong, but Archbishop Lefebvre did something wrong by defying the Pope and going through with the 1988 consecrations anyway. He was asked to hold off. Whatever insights he had, breaking with lawful authority was dumb.

You want to talk insight and authority? Dietrich von Hildebrand — 20th-century doctor of the Church, close friend of Cardinal Pacelli (later Pius XII), awarded papal knight — knew way more than Fr. Hesse ever did. And I'm working off of his general framework on authority. Also St Thomas Aquinas as well. The Holy Ghost protects the Church through the Pope as the manifest principle of unity. On faith and morals, the Pope will not err. That's the safeguard.

You can acknowledge that a pope makes mistakes in the practical sphere without rejecting his authority. But acting like his authority is void in specific cases or that you can just disobey him when you disagree is retarded. The SSPX crowd ignoring the Pope’s direct request to wait was stupid and disobedient. He wasn’t saying “never” — he said hold off. But they went ahead anyway.

Genuine zeal and love for the Holy Father is required, even when it's hard. I love what Pope Leo has done for the Church, even if some things are questionable. If your disposition is constantly undermining the Pope, you're at variance with the Church. The Holy Ghost guides and protects the Church primarily through the rock of Peter. Rejecting that while claiming you trust the Holy Spirit is inconsistent. We are bound to obey the lawful authority Christ established. I am just as much on your side about the novus ordo I am not a fan I wrote an entire book defending my position. I am not happy with a lot of the decisions that have been made but I still have to obey the Pope. Saint Alphonsus Liguori says it's more meritorious if you obey an inferior so long as he doesn't leave you into error so even if you think he is inferior sspx should have submitted they should have waited. It's not going to be the end of the world to wait a few months it's not going to be the end of the world to wait a year or two they could have waited they could have shown obedience to the holy father. We do have valid sacraments if you try to argue that the novus ordo doesn't have valid sacraments well then you are definitely not Catholic like definitivly not Catholic. Because that would mean the entire body of Christ has been allowed to not have any sacraments which would mean the church has defected and failed in her mission. But we do have valid sacraments and we have many orders now offering the Latin Mass. And we cannot live in the little land of what if. What if a bishop were to ban the Latin Mass what if this happened what if that happened. What if I died tomorrow. We cannot live in the land of what if. We have to continuously pray and submit to lawful prelates and the authority of Rome so long as it does not go against the universal custom or teaching of the church.

Gary Cummings's avatar

All those quotes of eminent scholars and intellectuals of the past are somewhat null and void because they couldn’t have imagined a Pope like Francis or the Catholic Church that exists today.

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